Business as usual? The future of business education

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I was very pleased that Peter agreed to be the first contributor today because
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in the fine Scottish tradition you know would some power the giftie gears to see
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yourselves as other CSS Bond said and peter has been at john institute since
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2012 has a long record of working in these areas and as i mentioned has also
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taken a post at bpp which is one of the interesting alternative providers as
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they're called over i think the language of that will evolve so and to start us
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off Peter over to you and then we'll have a father contribution and some
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reflections and then we'll open it up to a discussion thank you okay hero and
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whichever you like would-be robber is it comfortable yep actually why don't I just sit here and I need to know which
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camera did I go wrong it's all right the camera they are the best thing is just to look at the audience and but a great
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pleasure to be here oxford and thank you neyo for inviting me along as you said I've had a long interest in these sorts
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of subjects I spent many years in absentia and consulting with all sorts of businesses and sectors around the
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world and the last seven years I was there I ran their global consulting business around people and towns and
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change management to leadership the whistles of incredibly important themes and today as you highlighted them
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through my work with chief executive of the CIPD I spent a lot of time with business schools I talked a lot of
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business schools we accredit a lot of business schools programs around HR management I'm continuously trying to
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encourage business schools to think about the kind of people dimensions the business is if I'm honest I think
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historically we have not paid anything like enough attention people side of business now why is that
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important why is it even more importantly to do that well just to take a brief step back and sort of think
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about where we are and the development of work and the kinds of skills that were going to need in the future and I I
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think we've been observing along with many others that were perhaps at a bit of an inflection point in business huge
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amount of things changing they have globalization and the economy much much more uncertainty everywhere we look and
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brexit throwing a big spanner in the works as well and in that world or what becomes really important businesses
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agility and adaptability it's no longer about well I can play to 20 or 15 year or five years strategy yeah direction
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aliens know where I'm going and I've got to be able to adapt and I going to be agile and to do that I've really got to
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engage my people I gotta listen to my employees more I got to find innovation wherever it comes from and in my
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organization and at the same time demographics nearly touched on younger generations and that aspirations
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expectations of younger generations image NY was going to study to death and I still get big reports telling me what
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Gen Y I think about nothing hold on a second we probably ought to know fifty percent setting the next five years ten
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years seventy percent of the workforce will be Gen Y or younger so whatever it was the gym I was bringing to the
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workforce is already happening and in DJ might have brought a lot of things at organizations your different sense of
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things like purpose I think corporate social responsibility has grabbed a lot of impetus for younger generation saying
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now we want businesses to be responsible business and working business is not just about how much I get paid it's
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about what I can contribute and how does that business play its part in building better societies and communities and
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thank goodness they're asking those kind of question and so demographics the big change in a closed between my gem said I
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often talk about my own children got to G my daughter's know Jen's their daughter and there's just definitely a difference of the James their daughter
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she is completely obsessed by technology as she suffers not any foam oh if any
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so young should be recognizable como Israel which is true missing out what
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photo fear of being offline or I think the thought so you got generational
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changes but to extend that sort of faux beau the other big change that is driving our future is technology and in
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particular things like artificial intelligence so far bo is also napping to describe fear becoming obsolete and
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it was in somewhere in these August's halls which I think of some obstinate and where oz born afraid to academics
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produced a very well sited report working at deloitte on the future of jobs where they said that forty-seven
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percent it was very precise academic number forty percent of jobs that we do today could be automated in the next ten
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years and that what is really different about technology now what we had in the past is no longer just about automation
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of processes and taking away administrative tasks is increasingly about high-skilled jobs and about high
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cognitive skill jobs so we end up increasing looking at a future of work
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which is going to be very very different what jobs we all do and you said Neil
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it's increasingly important debate for governments now that what are the jobs were going to be doing the future
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because we don't understand that then what skills we building for but it's very hard to determine I mean in my
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conversations with them government on this sort of thing I say when they say what jobs are getting me in the future
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what are we going to do I have no idea but what I do know is there going to be different from what we do today and what
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that means in terms of skills would leave the job related skills is there is a stronger imperative for businesses to
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drive those kind of job skills arguably than we've had in the past and business historically i think has taken too much
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of a view that we need to be at a hot oven ready employees straight out of business schools were out of university
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and then we've had this long debate about so-called STEM skills which is frankly a proxy for you know for
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reducing the number of graduate applicants I have to find what I think I might need I don't think it's just about
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STEM skills at all and if you look at some great work that the OECD did on this
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number of years ago they talked about the future of skills being very very different things you know the ability to
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all this sort of critical thinking skills that you needed the great analyst people who could take lots of different
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sorts of information makes sense there the great communicators who could communicate ideas and share ideas and
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influence thinking because of that the great localizers who could take lots of big big ideas which might be relevant in
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other places and apply them in the context which is relevant to their business in other words what we are
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really starting to need to focus on are what some in the past will describe more
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other soft skills than the hard skills and if the soft skills are about an ability to connect to communicate to
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collaborate to share to learn and all those sorts of vital elements of what we
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need today we'll need more in the future then we need to think more about these soft skills and having a past another
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one I put on the table for you is resilience we took a lot now in a very fast changing world with a lot of
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uncertainty and a lot of things happening and you got to be able to experiment to take risks and you're not resilient I'm not prepared to confront
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failure along with success treat those two Impostors the same whoever's with that I'll be very learnable timing then
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you will not learn I mean we'd learn most from our mistakes and resilience is very important construct as well so as I
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said when you look at a kind of future of work and you look at the kind of core skills that we need then businesses have got to work more with academia and
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business goes in particular to say okay may not be able to jobs cuz they're not sure what they were going to be but I
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can tell you what I will need and I will need more of these kind of soft skills critical thinking skills project management skills my though things and I
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also want to see business leaders who are much better trained in what I
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started with which is understanding people there is no business that I'm aware of that doesn't employ yeah any
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particular scalar sized it doesn't either employ people or have to interact with people yet somehow the paradigm of
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work over the last 20 30 40 years has been very much one of command and control a process and a rule
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but somebody said to me the other day it's like we've treated human beings as bad robots in other words they're going
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to design a process i'm going to put human being in it never going to write all these rules because the problem is with human beings because they don't
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obey all the rules and they do have these things called behaviors but you're not always the things we want what does
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that guess get the best out of people of course it doesn't does it engage in this course it doesn't does it create more
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stress in the workplace absolutely does it encourage things that voice and saying oh I got some autonomy I got some
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say much going on here and I will contribute as a result of that these are the kinds of paradigms have to change in
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the world of work as well and then finally I think this is a really really important point which is where and how
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we're going to be working the growth of the so-called gig economy I'm sure you've heard about that uber ization is
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now a verb I believe in the Oxford English Dictionary which says that people more and more are choosing
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different ways of working so the old paradigm had said it's okay we're all going to join some big organization that big organization would look after my
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training is built today because that's what big organizations do or should do well if more of us are working for
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ourselves or in micro enterprises where we do not have the resources all the focus or sometimes even the energy to
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say well I'm going to train these people and all that these people who are working for me are contracted so they
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are working lips on a gig then where is the incentive employer to train these people which begs a very big question
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which is who is going to train these people so if people are moving around more between jobs and those jobs
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themselves are changing and we're going to be working longer then there's a very big set of fundamental question to be
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asked by government by educationists by business we've got to think about welfare systems a lot of other things to
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say all right so what are the support mechanisms are people that are moving between jobs need to have to go and rescale maybe not employ Bernie but it's
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going to look after that skills development and you move into ideas like the Flex security models and other things which been experimented with in
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other parts of Europe so we are as a previous at a real inflection point of thinking
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and I passionately believe we're going to work on these journeys together yeah the brown business skills in this in
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helping to research an understanding one level these big trends and themes and another level of course helping us to
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build the kinds of skills working more closely with businesses to build the kind of skills we need not just today but in the future and as I said it's
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going to be much more about the soft skills that necessarily teach me the details of financial management which I
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don't deny is important but I would also say you know we need be teaching this stuff of school not having to pick it up
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at universities they do you understand the basics of our business runs there's not a fundamental skill we should be
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teaching all our young people particular saying the growth of entrepreneurs and micro businesses and most unveiled they
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don't understand these things so as I said my message would be it's an extraordinary time I think to be in
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business there is an option and there's a lot of opportunity but they're also a lot of threats and our nation and the
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productivity and competitiveness of our nation depends on education and business working perhaps more closely together
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than they have in the past but with a more chain you know fast paced way aren't working all the way from research
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suit of what we teach and how business schools can help not just with the entry level of graduates but through the
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lifelong learning processes that we need so much more but a big head or anything else and those I think there are agendas
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and I you know progeny of pulling together events like this so we can debate these sorts of very broad range of themes okay so I what I want to do is
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take some questions and queries to peer in some discussion around that before we
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go on to Roxanne can I ask you one question that in a number of discussions
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I've had with senior HR and development people there is now a body of opinion
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that says that they can identify the talent at 18 and would rather engage
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with the talent at 18 then run the risk of waiting for them to be spoiled yeah
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and and in fact that are employers who are taking that attitude
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and it seems that some of the levee reforms may open that up more and but if
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you've got comment on that point of view and happier because this content as a contrary point of view that it says but
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many employers 18 is too young yeah it's interesting we are and the levee is going to drive more of this of course a
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lot more businesses encouraging or creating apprenticeship programs interestingly not just an entry-level
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book right here through but if i take the entry-level challenge then a lot of business saying yeah but the problem is going to get an eighteen-year-old they
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often really are lacking these core employability skills and although it's a frankly for many people are very
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expensive way to build employability skills if not sure what you're going to do to go to university and build up what is now one of the biggest debts of young
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people in any any developed nation for businesses they find often there's quite
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a risk in taking an eighteen-year-old and hence in part i think i'm probably
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also because of you arguably oversupply graduates between a lot easier for business to say you know what I broke up
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graduate or I'd rather have an Eastern European worker it might be 24 who's got
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probably not just one degree the two degrees this comes the UK and work here hard to answer money to send back home
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and is just going to get on with a job and so there are lots of dynamics to
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this this whole point as well because we might get into this kind of mismatch of
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qualification to the workforce and the nature of work because is one of the big drivers of productivity but it's not to
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shine that or point the finger at education so you got to go wrong because business itself is not invested enough
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in training and developing people it's taken these very broad-based views of how to recruit people saying I'd rather
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just have a graduate of a stem skill verse is saying that you know what an 18 year old and who comes in with some of
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these basic attributes it's got a good attitude to work do I put in an apprenticeship well actually they learn
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the skills I need and is much more likely interestingly to stay with that job then say well I'm a graduate I'll do
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that for a year but then I want your job alright and i'll get i'll give you some examples this BBC and
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really regret dragged kicking and screaming by the previous HR Director insanity of the patient have
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apprenticeships the BBC was not a traditional 18 year old employer not only to delight graduates in particular
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like Oxbridge graduates and it really wasn't very good despite the nature of being a media broadcast to where you
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would think you know diversity is an important thing and attribute of its own workforce it wasn't very good at this time so then they started recruit 18
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your graduates and they place them in some of the departments and then the department heads up about six months time saying you know what I've amor with
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it more of these 18 year olds because they come in here they don't have a big attitude they just want to get on and
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learn they are grateful for the opportunity and they are loyal to a fault in terms of sticking with me and
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the things I asked them to do so as I said you can look at this kind of two ways country you can look at it from I
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think there's a great opportunity and benefit to apprenticeship programs would bring 18 year olds them to into work but
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we have to recognize sometimes Walter no wall and from the other side I think we've got to get business is still to
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open up their minds to recognize that that is a good route for people into work they need to be encouraging it the
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lab is going to make them do more of this stuff and I think the outcome could be quite positive would get it right
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okay comments and questions on what Turkish had to say at our microphones
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and if you could say who you're who you are and thank you very much for this
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good introduction my name is Olivier Brennan Maya um you mentioned two skills
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or a one fear in one skill the skill you mentioned is resilience to which I fully
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agree is terribly needed but young people have a fear of missing out or a
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fear of being left on line isn't that actually a contradiction the fears
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cancel out the ability to be resilient yeah I mean I think yes you can
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absolutely look at things like this a lot of more research emerging on the gensets the digital natives how being in
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an online world effect in their thinking of the becoming more risk-averse there was some very interesting research in Sweden which was
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quite disturbing about the levels of depression or other people because they're trying to present through social media there's wonderful world than
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living their wonderful lives and therefore anything that this is threat that they they tend to distance
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themselves I mean even come back to the students of you in the anyways the debates going on and on about rejecting
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some of the things in the past right yes subscribe to successful roads there's a lot of debate about our young people
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just growing up in a world where they want to isolate themselves from a lot of reality and kind of reposition the world
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that works for them and and it it's a debate that will continue but i think
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that combined with what for many has been a trend in an education where we're
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not allowed to say that someone who's failed and they're going to get it right before they can progress and is also a
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perception or kidnapping business and so so how you teach resilience is a really
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really interesting question and but i am seeing I'm to head teachers too and I've seen this coming on to the gender
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schools more we've got to teach our children about failure what it means to fail it's not the end of the world that
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you can learn from you can pick yourself up and move on and but I think here we would both agree in the world that is
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changing so rapidly we have to understand what may be making young people less resilient or maybe they're
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just coming into a world which it has got so much change that the level of resilience has to be higher than
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previous generators but whatever it is I think it's a very very fundamental skill we cannot have people so stressed out to
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some of these studies are showing that they are rejecting things that they can't understand all that part of that convenient world's view and then get
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into the world of work and find it was different and that's a very challenging question for okay as Mike if you can see
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where your progress was your uh Mike Nolan I'm the Dean of the business school at london south bank um I just
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wanted to go back to the issue of apprenticeships hmm because I'm sure
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we've all been through various incarnations of employer engagement attempts to get better links between
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universities and businesses there's a serious plan and serious money behind apprenticeships now so I think this is
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likely to go further but I just wanted what we're thinking bars around the
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extent to which there is still a bit of snobbery and Prejudice around the idea
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of apprenticeship and I'm old enough to toe sort of remember you know grammar schools and secondary Cotton's and boys
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are good with their hands went to the secondary modern and what are the chances of us shaking off this idea the
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apprenticeships of fur also-rans yeah and the extent of which 18 year olds
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will see it as actually not like going to uni year and therefore the thing is kind of stillborn a very very important
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questions like I mean if you look at the trend over the last love it when I could be turned by the years punches we have
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we've dropped off from the branches we weren't bad did not as good as many about continental cousins and that it's
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dropped off significantly and now we're trying to reverse that trend and it's in the in the teeth of and it started Tony
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Blair and his manager of education education education that we should have half our young people games came to university which is pretty much where
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we're at were very close to it and now you've then got a perception all the way from schools or school teachers it says
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success is about going to university for parents saying success is about going to university and for young people saying
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success is about going to university and then whether it's the friendship or anything else somehow if I don't do that then where am I so you got that as you
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said a kind of cultural backdrop which we really have to work very very hard to overcome and the government well the
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governor's been doing says talk madness 3 million target is a huge danger just becomes quantity versus quality we can
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already see a massive growth of level 2 apprenticeships well how's that going out unless we can show some if you want
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to contrast the university education that you can really see progression to an apprenticeship up through higher and
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advanced levels of apprenticeship with the potential cross over into academic qualifications that's what I want which
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is one handsome Jeremy many other countries we have two systems at who do you fight each other in this country in
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terms of QA QC and all these tools for other mechanisms so all the ways is
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there from how do we shift the rhetoric through schools from primary eight probably onwards through parents in a
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wider cultural discourse or societal discourse about different reason to work the validity of this hidden brutal work
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through to being able to really show that in the apprenticeship system both through how it works with business
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schools however works with businesses that you can show progression and then we do not end up which is the huge
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danger the unintended consequence of this friendship leg we don't gotta research on it is that we're going to be a flat with quantity and businesses
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rather than creating new opportunities simply rebounding what they would do and we can only see it happening and so you
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got that concern as well so that hardly opens up new opportunities and and as I
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said its lack of lack of really understanding progression on apprenticeships and and I think you know
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I'm sure number beautiful University are working on these ideas of degree apprenticeships which is really really
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important and I think could work well because that shows again the progression then the cross over into more academic
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qualifications that's what you want to accomplish that we've got to find a more flexible we're doing and it can't be
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what i did my level 5 or level 60 now go to do a full degree and how do we make those two systems work together and i
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think it's as much up to us as any regulator franklin to figure that out welcome Malcolm gillies a retired
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gentleman but the way you're describing
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this is she still has something of the ring of the old nation-state in a world of increasing mobility and a world where
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a lot of people want to come to Britain that's what everybody's talking about in in France in these days um isn't it a
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better business deal I mean just in how you spend money to enhance the migration you've just prayers with those Eastern
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European will pair with the qualifications the experience and the attitude and not worry so much about
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spending five or ten years of training alone population when that will cost how much
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more anywhere cost them so much yeah there's interesting point I've worked a lot with my plantains consultant with
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lots of different businesses looking at matts the world wake of Montana most businesses really are not looking at
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geographic boundaries just saying that if I can access good times in this country I will locate myself here and I
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will access that time we all know we seem endless numbers of servers over the last year is that CEOs and businesses
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are worrying more and more about access to skilled as their primary thing if I can't get the people that I'm in trouble
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so yes I think you could take a much more pluralistic global view of the
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world and say you know what if this country that can be competitive and
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successful and attractive people which is start keeping able to do I'm a massive believe in diversity that's
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where innovation comes from Louise on things and if we can continue to attract good people good skills what's wrong
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with that there is the debate as you know which has come a lot through some of the Braxtons discussions that are
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these migrant workers competing against Brits for the same jobs the evidence
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that is not particularly overwhelming that they are made at one level there are sad to say a lot of jobs the migrant
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workers seem to be prepared to do that Britt harmed and I'm not just talking about a fruit pickers in the East Anglia
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you get towards logistics companies they can't hard truck drivers go to the
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construction industry they can't hardly done enough young people wanted to do traditional trades yeah i mean honestly
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if I was starting out today I could have a 40,000 pound bet by getting you there sir I could become a plumber and now I
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have job for life so but i think the bias again to go back to the point about
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young people what they're being coached you to school on the past was university has also deflected them away from these
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kinds of jobs and then give them an expectation you know what you should be at your graduation to a graduate job
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research we did last year's the CFD suggested almost sixty percent who crashes in this country i'm doing not
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graduate jobs and i think very my definition here because we are today defining and businesses to find many
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jobs as graduate jobs but you never really need to be a graduate it's just because that's my back to the early
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point about recruiting 18yo it's easier and there a lot of them to recruit 21 or I'm graduate with the Java positive
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graduate or not so they cure your wider point is an interesting one we're going to see this debate run and run as you
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know is listening to Theresa May was a checkers today in first time after summer recess trying to figure out what
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the hell they will make my breakfast it practice it means perhaps that yeah but what does brexit me and the big debate
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with a part of it I think most people are concluding is migration but that is
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it has been a very distorted view of what we think about migration that the
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reality is that the majority of migrants into this country not coming from me you unless the EU migrants are generally
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helping businesses to do what they need to do when there's no doubt the european pool has worked extremely well for UK
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business it's this big issue of those left behind and even in the 1990s people
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like Patricia Hewitt at the IPPR were writing about the dangers for young white males who had no qualifications
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but they were absorbed into the Blair boom economy that went right up until
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the banks crushed and really the Labour government didn't address that side of
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it tomlinson and diplomas were in an attempt that they ran up against their own kind of University snobbery but now
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those who have left behind have had the revenge so the play hope classes know
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that they have to address this and I think the levy is part of that and petzl
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klein and others have always been very strong on it but it does need to be able to reach up into colleges and things a
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bit more if I may say in the Scottish tradition of the further education colleges and the people who are working
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at non university level which is a slightly stronger tradition and respect
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and I think that squared is here and thurs before when you land in the Scottish is my
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think less early specialization we force people in that the English system to specialize so early when they're so
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young and that's why I was emphasizing its point about these core skills we need much more of them and worrying less
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about what I've got three a levels in some very specific subjects which I may or may not take was into my future
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career okay other comments and feedback a question maybe actually Mike since I
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know that you're a business deep when I was working for the association of business schools and they were the MBAs
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were growing like Topsy one of the statistics that completely took me so by surprise was the eighty-six percent of
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the full-time mba is being studied at UK business schools were being studied by
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overseas students and that when you looked behind it you could see that UK
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business had been dis connecting from business schools either because they wouldn't pay for it or the time off it
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session was inflexible and they were investing in lots of shorter private courses often run by their own academics
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by the way as far as I could see but also you began to see the problems arising in part-time education in
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bareback and some of the open universities models just that point about you know where is that disconnect
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and give any sort of insight into it I think there's a couple of issues and one
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is to put it bluntly that MBA is taken by overseas students is a really good
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money spinner universities and there's been a little bit of a race to the bottom in terms of entry requirements in
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the sense that you have non executive mba s that are taken by people straight off degrees and we could argue for a
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long time about the validity of that but money is money and money talks the
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changes of the QA and I made will put a stop to that and that's gonna be
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challenging I think to the business model for lot of universities have relied on that income so that the whole
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market city for us has tended to be part time and I think there's a bigger question there
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I don't want to pre up too much what we might discuss after the break but as a relatively new very new business dean
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looking at this with new eyes I simply said what's the point in NBA okay and
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others may shoot me down for saying this but it had slightly the whiff of supply-side economics about it will
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teach you what we know and we hope that you wanted and we hope that employers will find it useful and I think the
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disconnect in my view has been a failure to stand outside the institution and say
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what's the point of it why would somebody employee with this qualification or valuing you can I enter
29:52
the organization and I think it's been a little too much putting a trophy elemental piece and hoping that it makes
29:58
you more employable and I think there's gonna be a kind of relearning curve for
30:04
some organizations there are going to have to rethink their MBA business and that's why we're hearing you know in
30:10
terms of some of the commentators the idea of the NBA is dead well it probably isn't but it needs to be something completely different if he's gonna
30:16
survive yeah i was reading some insurance taxes because their vast number of overseas students doing MBAs
30:21
in this country but yeah i mean i perfected at myself in business I remember asking my employer accenture
30:28
when I was 25 26 another I've been in business 3 4 years that we respond to me
30:33
to do an MBA no why would we we will train you to do everything you need to know it has no value further value to us
30:41
I think however interestingly is a tool to bid we've done in it's a lot of them
30:46
would say well I've done an MBA no let's make a career change so that so the class because I've worked in a particular functional field of business
30:52
and I want to go for example 01 are going to be a consultant or I want to go into investment banking on that so some
30:58
people have unquestionably looked at the NBA is their ticket to make a significant career shift and whether
31:05
place out your point in reality or not is the question but I think there's some evidence of that I also did a very
31:11
interesting stat that said that thirty-one percent of global chief executives were the world's largest
31:17
companies it was 500 largest companies are done an NBA and take that for what
31:23
you will interestingly they were very largely from the top business schools
31:28
and that's another thing I mean I think it is the challenge and i know i'm a big
31:35
fan of schools by yours my youngest daughter's just starting off with oxford brookes I'm a big fan of that model but
31:41
I think when it comes to mb age it's a tight market and everybody knows the
31:47
matters the Harvard's the lbs is near and big businesses would say you better got a big business degree as he wear and
31:54
that was what was evidenced by this research on cheap exams pretty much all who come from the top 10 schools now to
32:02
we all need nba's to be chief execs a large fortune 500 companies or probably not secondly do we all all one of each
32:08
of executives for fortune 500 companies or could be there of course not and so yeah I think it's time to challenge some
32:14
of these constructs of what's the purpose of an NBA my business perspective it's a very very thin case
32:21
whether I would sponsor it and whether I would recruit an NBA because part of the problem is a touch number four is you
32:28
bring in an NBA and picking out all they really do it's a bit like a computer science graduates and anything you
32:33
teaching computer science courses but they come into the big tech companies and then the tech time you say not
32:39
really sure when I hired computer science graduates who they think they know it all and I thought you what they've been taught at the university is
32:45
on a date because computer science of all subjects is changing so rapidly and so there's that kind of debate okay
32:54
before we go to our next speaker just one is there anyone here from further
33:00
education because it's worth remembering that eleven percent i think it is of
33:05
degrees of thought and further education colleges a large number of them are very
33:11
business focused and often perhaps more granular than in some of the universities and if i was interesting
33:18
that one of the first degree apprenticeships that was done it was at durham and all the newspapers wrote
33:24
assuming it must be done in university when it's not it's it's you college tournament John medicine will be here
33:29
tomorrow and but further education element as the other providers and a lot
33:36
of whom have kept quite close contacts with their businesses and things anybody
33:43
and we're aware that some universities are reviewing their franchising relationships with further education in
33:49
not very attractive fashion not quite monopolistic or cartel but you know
33:56
regarding its competition locally and that seems to be a big issue that will come up does anybody got further
34:03
education point of view that they would like to stick in as there is one of the key alternative providers to
34:09
universities if you like it kinky so hi I'm Rebecca desh poem from bromley college we recently merged with bexley
34:16
in bridge and now we learned in southeast college and yes you're right that we do deliver business courses and
34:22
we deliver it with franchise with University of Greenwich and contra Christchurch university but again I
34:27
think they struggle with um the bachelors model because there's a
34:33
three-year model we deliver and also the foundation degrees our foundation degrees do really well because that's a
34:38
mature market we be a PD too but again further education colleges struggle with
34:46
selling the BSC business honors courses for example because universities do want
34:52
to charge the same free which is 9,000 and sometimes learners don't feel the same value like you said earlier that
34:58
it's all about the value why would they pay 9,000 pounds and come to a further education College to get their business
35:06
degree and again the for the further education as managing the business
35:13
school of the last three years I struggle with the that some universities
35:18
for example can't agree they have written the business course and it's there's very much less he can do it's
35:23
very much driven to that target market of 18 to 21 but we have been sure
35:29
students who come to business course if you already have experience business and we can't really play with the program a lot or change it so i
35:37
think there's this needful for the education you know to kind of step up and have that voice in the association
35:44
of business that we can write or rewrite the business model for further education
35:49
in that mature market who wants to come into business degree sorta mother do
35:55
want to do the degree of internships for examples work for example we bid it for our group internships paid so we will be
36:01
working towards developing that as well so yeah have you looked at all at
36:06
getting your own degree awarding powers because one of the fascinating things about the past five years is that
36:14
whoever his claws 157 that would have enabled some further education colleges
36:19
and others to step up and the university stars but they've chosen not to in most
36:25
cases I think the same for the fall past 20 years if chosen not to because some
36:31
programs if he boo quality should we went we barely had wrecked numbers the
36:37
numbers dropped drastically because we were helped by the university marketing machine so we saw drastic so we were
36:45
thinking that would that help us to have our own degree awarded by our college would they have the same value for the
36:50
learners but we're trying to get her after after powers first so young then
36:57
think of TV warring powers but again it goes back to will that give students the value and put the C value in it very
37:04
interesting the marketing power of universities