Equality, diversity and inclusion: lessons from practice

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on the topic of the achievement culture of equality diversity and inclusion in a company or organization is not easy
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despite the existence of long-standing equality legislation and employment policies inequality still
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persists both nationally and globally in areas such as hiring and gender pay despite a greater
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understanding of edna in the workplace many organizations struggle to know where to begin
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our parents today will share insights and experiences of how they manage ddni in their organizations
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as well as what you need to know from a legal perspective this event will be recorded and made available on the cipd website
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in a few days that's tipd dot now ie pleasure to welcome our director
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of ca to Ireland mary carlton would very much like to say a few words and welcome to all of you talk to you
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barry thanks very much andrew and lovely to be here everybody and see you all this
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afternoon and i'm delighted to be supporting this ongoing partnership between cipd and the
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munster technological university and and our regional series really means we bring in people from all
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around the country and that's really important to us in terms of inclusivity and being able to engage with all of you and
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i think today's topic is really important at this point in time we were very conscious in cipd that throughout
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2020 we heard less about diversity and inclusion than we might normally do and we weren't hearing about initiatives
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and interventions but when we did our hr practices survey at the end of the year we found actually that there was still a
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lot of work going on in the area and our metrics were up a lot more well not we're up a little
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in terms of organizations building that inclusive um culture in their organization so that
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was good to see and however we found that there was a risk coming through around caring responsibilities and
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things like working from home that has sort of got highlighted over covet 19
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so it's one of the watch points that we're going to have to deal with going forward is how do we make sure that employees
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can get that balance around caring responsibilities and working from home and returning to
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work so there's some of the challenges that i know we face and in particularly we saw there was
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impacting on women more than men as they were more likely to be the ones managing the care situation and taking
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annual leave to deal with us so really although we're making good strides we still have emerging issues
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that we're going to have to watch out for to try and get that balance right and personally i'm really looking forward to hearing our examples today i
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think you've put pulled together and a great panel and thanks very much to the cipd uh committee in the south for doing
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it and for their support from mtu and from speakers i'm going to hand over to don who's
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going to introduce the speakers for us directly thank you mary and good afternoon
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everyone it's my pleasure on behalf of monster technological university to welcome you to today's webinar i
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thank you mary mary andrew and to the cipd southern region as well for the opportunity
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to partner with you again this year for what has become an annual event as andrew rightly said monster
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technological university or mtu was formed on the 1st of January last following the merger of kirk institute
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of technology and i.t truly and we're delighted this year to be celebrating 40 years of hr education
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in the region and if you're tweeting today please use the hashtag inclusivemtu together with a team of
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colleagues across the school of business and mtu we are involved in the development and rollout of
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edi workshops for staff and students as well as the design and development of
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certificate in edi in the workplace mtu has approximately 18 000 full-time
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and part-time students and approximately 1 800 staff
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developing a strong edi culture and ethos in our staff and students is an essential part of what we do every
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day and we're delighted with the support that we have received and also that this is an area that our
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new president professor maggie cusack is also very passionate about
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society is becoming increasingly diverse as part of mtu's strategic plan
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2018-2023 inclusivity is specifically listed as the first of our five
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core values it states that we strive to support and nurture inclusivity diversity and
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equality recognizing the value they have to the future of our students
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our staff and the wider community mtu is committed to ensuring an
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inclusive environment for all staff students and graduates as well as the wider
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community and my colleague dr deirdre donovan will expand on some of the work being undertaken by her and colleagues
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in our presentation later we've engaged in a wide variety of activities and
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initiatives to foster this culture both on campus and in the community
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and these include initiatives and projects such as live case studies on edna with industry
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partners such as dell technologies for a long number of years we've been
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offering workforce diversity and diversity management electives on a number of our programs and demand
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for these electives is consistently strong from both full-time and part-time students alike
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and many of those part-time students are also working in industry the importance of edi is also being very
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much seen in the stem area with training and demand for students before they come
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into their work placement or before graduates enter the workplace as i mentioned earlier we're currently
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developing a certificate in edi in the workplace which will commence in September and this is aimed at industry
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practitioners and I'll have some more information on that later many of you may be interested in
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this new and innovative program edi workshops for staff in both the
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clark and kerry campuses have commenced last year with the support of our hr
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department and the strategic alignment fund we began delivering diversity and inclusion workshops for staff and
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students we have a very active lgbt plus student society
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who won best society last year and they're leading the way for students and staff in this space
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although the students are well ahead of us here they've taken the society to the next level and really extended the reach of
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the lgbt plus society especially in their volunteering with various community groups off campus
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awareness training on lgbt issues has been delivered through link active consent initiative training has
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been delivered to students and is being rolled out in consultation with the students union and all of our hiring managers have also
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completed unconscious bias training last year mtu's access service and
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teaching and learning unit together with our hr office and athena swan delivered a very
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successful edi week on campus looking at a range of issues including challenges in edi disability
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traveller awareness universal design for learning and unconscious bias
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mtu is also very proud to be involved in the lgbt allies at work initiative
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and it's great to see staff across the campus wearing their rainbow lanyards which is just a small sign of the
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inclusive culture that we want to foster in our students also currently we're undertaking an edi
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survey of all mtu staff academic professional management and support staff the staff
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of the carp campus have completed the survey and that survey is ongoing in the curry campus at
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present at mtu engagement with industry is an essential part of what we do
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I've already mentioned the authentic assessment and the form of life case studies with some of our industry
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partners and we've also partnered with mckesson on a bursary program for female students
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in stem we've collaborated with the likes of boston scientific and also with dell
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technologies on their dell aspire initiative so back to that certificate in edi in
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the workplace that i mentioned earlier this program as i said may be of interest to a lot of you and will come
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in since September it's 20 credits you take a five credit diversity management and inclusion
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module a five credit diversity law module and then there's a 10 credit diversity
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research project so this can be academic or it can be consultancy based
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and many of you may choose to do that project that research project on your own organization
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perhaps as part of a development of your own dni policy so as i said mtu is an inclusive
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community it plays a significant part in the lives of 18 000 students and 1800 staff
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being able to be yourself at work is very important it contributes to better staff morale it
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builds that sense of community and leads to better retention third level is a time where students
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prepare to enter the world of work and develop skills to help them contribute to the greater community
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empowering them to be their authentic selves and embrace the culture of edi in their workplaces of the future
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and in their community leads to a better quality of life for everyone so before i hand over to
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the first guest today can i again thank mary andrew jacinta lindy and
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mary for all of their work in making this event possible i know that today is mary's last event
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with cipd and mtu and i'd like to thank her for working so closely with us over the last number of
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years to foster a positive and mutually beneficial partnership for cipd
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and mtu it has been a pleasure working with you and we are delighted to partner with you again this year on this event
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for members and for students and great to have um almost uh i think over 300 people signed
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up so those of them who aren't here today will get these presentations over the coming days
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so now it's my pleasure to introduce our speakers and we're delighted to be in to be joined by trisha smith
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global lead of diversity and inclusion for dell technologies by jackie casey the senior manager of
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talent acquisition with mckesson by dr deirdre donovan who is a lecturer
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and course coordinator for the master of arts in human resource management at monster technological university and
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by russell rochford partner with madison so before i
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give you trisha's background and and bio can i ask you please to enter your
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questions using the chat function as we progress through each of the presentations and again
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please use the hashtag inclusivemtu if you're tweeting about the event
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so as i said our first speaker today is trisha smith who's the head of diversity and inclusion for dell technologies in
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europe middle east and Africa at dell dni is more than what they do
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it's who they are having full leadership buy-in is critical when creating real change within
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organizations and as part of her role trisha works with the business leadership teams to drive a business driven culture
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of diversity and inclusion and to ensure that dell remains an employer of choice
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trisha is also responsible for driving leadership commitment engagement of customers and team members
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in their dni agenda and promoting partnerships and engagements with global companies and
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advocates with almost 5000 team members in Ireland trisha is well positioned at the centre
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of dell technologies international operations based in kirk she brings away
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international experience across her 15 years of passionately driving dni initiatives
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and employee engagement across all of her previous roles so trisha over to you and we're looking
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forward to your presentation thanks john thanks for the glowing introduction and thank you to cipd
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Ireland for the invitation um i have to start because we're in a zoom environment can you all see my
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screen before i start give me a thumbs up if you can excellent and not my messy notes
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and now genuinely look thank you for the invitation to come and talk to you so i'm just going
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to start by sharing i don't have all the answers that's a different presentation
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and but as john said my name is tricia smith and i do have the privilege of leading the diversity and inclusion
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program for emea for adele and i'm very much looking forward to today i have disabled speaking sharing but
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also learning from all the contributors you know already it was interesting hearing mary talking about the watchpoint of
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carers you know people going back to work after krovet because that's something that we see in our business every day as well
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so it's often good to just have these chats and recognize we're not doing this alone and and this
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it's funny i talk to a lot of different teams ages nationalities companies
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and the same topics come up so i guess it might be the same for you and although we don't have all the
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answers we're trying at dell um and widely recognized as an industry leader
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so what i'm going to do today is set the context briefly with an overview of dell who we
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are and then talk a little about our strategy around ddi before sharing some of the programs that we run to cultivate that sense of
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belonging inclusion as a company huge part of it is our employee resource groups ergs
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so my goal today is to give you some context for within which our ergs work and share
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information with the hopes that you find something you find value in and can take away for you and your organizations
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so to kick off dell technologies who are we so when people think of dell you
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often think laptops and yes that's a part of our business and i hope that you're watching this on adele laptop
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um but what we do overall as a company is we create technologies to drive human progress so if you go to our website that's what
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you will see so we're first and foremost an end-to-end technology provider
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and i'm often asked what does that mean so how i like to think of it very simplistically is okay whatever
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you're using to watch this whether it's pc laptop tablet that's the edge
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and then you have the servers in your organization that serve your hardware on the edge so the route through then you've got the
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cloud like zoom in this case or how your emails magically arrived
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onto your laptop you've got the data centre that brings it all together and then really importantly how we keep
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all of that secure so hugely simplified and i hope that any technical people on the call
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will excuse my simplification but that is really how i look at it so how we do that is we have seven
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companies operating in that ecosystem and in Ireland specifically then
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we have five of those companies with a significant presence here with global and emea functions and
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sales support in Belfast so our ethos in this country apologies my phone is dinging here and
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is three sites acting seamlessly as one so 10 sites in total between in cork for
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example we have um dell we have dell emc we have pivotal virtue stream vmware
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names that you may have heard of but that you didn't realize were part of the dell ecosystem and as dell's as dan said we have almost
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5 000 full-time employees team members here and in total we have over 6 000
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so as i said just to set the context to start with and back to that line you know i said we
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create technologies that drive human progress so as one of the largest global
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technology providers we think that we have a unique role to play in transforming the future
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driving human progress and that we're well positioned to do so knowing the importance of social impact
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the power of technology we're constantly asking the question how can we along with our customers
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partners suppliers industry partners like this have a profound and positive impact on
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society and the planet within the next 10 years so in November 2019
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we launched our plan to do so which we called progress made real
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so i want to share this with you just to share that this is what we look at as a
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strategy within the entire company yes there's a bottom-up approach to edi equity diversity and inclusion
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but really this is also top down it isn't new to us we previously had our legacy of good
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you know we're always rated on forbes best employers for diversity and indeed's list of top-rated companies
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for work-life balance things like that but what we try to do with this plan is marry
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the two so our focus on driving inclusion as part of the social impact
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is driven top down it's embraced by michael dell through his leadership team and that's my first
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big point now as i said at the start i'm privileged absolutely privileged because i know that i have a mandate
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because i see michael dell on stage on cnbc speaking about this stuff his name is on
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the company he speaks about the stuff it's real as well as the new technology company
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announcements so how can we make the next 10 years so much better
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and this is our plan across four different areas advancing sustainability cultivating
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inclusion and transforming lives by addressing society's most pressing issues and underlying each of these of course
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is our commitment to ethics and data privacy so we also believe as a company that
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what gets measured gets done anybody who has had dealings with dell will be familiar with
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this so across each of these four areas we did launch what we called our moonshot goals what seemed like reaching for the
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moon back in 2019 unattainable maybe but we still want to work towards it
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but what we're seeing already is because of the laser focus on these goals we're already having an
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impact and for cultivating inclusion our goal
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is to have 50 of our global workforce and 40 of our people leaders to be women by
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2030. we have to increase the diversity of our leadership and real inclusion happens on
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purpose that is why we're doing this so how do we do it i don't have to tell you
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you know the race for talent is keen but we also need to look at keeping our key challenge and then looking at this not just as a
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company but as an industry so how we do that is across three pillars
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we look at building and attracting the future workforce and that's very important don mentioned there about the
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um the stella the aspire program but we also then want to keep talent and
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really as i said at the start cultivate that feeling of belonging so i'm racing through this
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but i did want to share just to give you that idea of the tone at the top reforming into our ergs our employee
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resource groups so across the company we have 13 years of Asian Ireland and we're often asked what's in it for
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me so this one page is the why for employee resource groups you know a lot of you will know the research better
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than i do um but by 2024 i think it's estimated that about three quarters of the global workforce will be millennials or gen z
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and just look at the way the world is changing and how that demographic is responding to the changes so as you can see here 84
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of 25 to 34 year olds said that ergs have a positive impact on engagement we also did a lot of research and it's
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on our website actually on gen z two years ago and another interesting finding
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was that 65 were willing to take a lesser paid job for a job with more
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purpose so this really is at the basis of what we try to do as a company
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so here in Ireland the percentage is even higher in terms of participation and these four ergs i'm going to hone in
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on the bottom one a lot of viewers companies might have employee resource groups that reflect for example connexxus remote workforce
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that came into its own last year they were able to straightaway support that move to virtual for us as a company
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there's the business imperative but as mary mentioned at the start you know there is a known as an
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extra responsibility we all have it i have my children on alert to not make noise for
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the 10 minutes that i'm talking you know and our newest urge is family balance
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and it started it was a surprise i suppose where it came from but it's really resonating through the pandemic
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and obviously we have traditional families but we also have a couple of areas specifically right now
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for example those caring for someone else whether it's an older person a child a sim sibling and we want to support and
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ensure that those people have access to the support that's available for them they don't feel like they have to choose
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between one or the other as a company I've included details of all of our
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employee resource groups in here for you as well as these the other thing that i wanted to
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highlight was our mark program so started in 2015 um
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from a catalyst program this it's a four-hour session that all of our managers have now gone through and how this ties back in
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is that this program leads team members through a journey around diversity inclusion unconscious bias
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but the whole way into privilege recognizing your privilege and how to use it at work so it's very
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important for us to ensure that things like the eorgs can function that team members can have access to
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them as they go through their daily work as well so finally back to the start
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as i said the key takeaway from our journey certainly is dna it's not an isolated program
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although i'm responsible for the program here everybody in the company
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is and it has to go the whole way through the entire organization tone at the top the company culture and
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write down into the specific programs and tools like mark and eorg's
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that we use as a company that's how we've seen success that's how we're hoping to continue to
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see success and i'm very much looking forward to hearing from jackie as well
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i know that some of the specific types of programs that they run at mckesson are interesting to us so look thank you
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we can do this together let's keep sharing and again thank you don and to the cipd for the invitation today
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thank you jackie and thanks for that for sharing that information so openly with us as well today and that has been very well
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received and i'm sure that we'll have lots of questions as well later so our next speaker is jackie
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casey from mckesson jackie is the senior manager for talent acquisition
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and leads the team in Ireland mckesson is a global farmland healthcare company
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which is currently ranked seventh on the fortune 500 list a previous diversity and inclusion
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innovation award winner during her time working with dell emc jackie founded
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the mentoring role model program called stem aspire jackie is dedicated to ensuring
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talent acquisition continues to impact and influence mckesson's dni initiatives and business
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strategies so again over to you jackie and everyone if you'd like to put your questions in
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chat as we go through please please feel free thank you john firstly
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can you see the full screen am i sharing correctly we
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okay perfect thanks
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sorry not just for with me right okay so thank you so much john and thank
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you to the cipd and to mtu and for the kind invite i'm absolutely delighted to be here today
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so um what i'd like to do during my 10 minutes is to briefly introduce you to
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mckesson and then maybe to focus on some of the dei initiatives that we have in the court site and then i'd like to
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summarize by sharing a few top tips from a recruitment perspective
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so mckesson's story begins over 185 years ago when john mckesson and charles olcott
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first founded all cotton mckesson in new york city in 1833 and their first customers were the
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captains of clipper ships and they were docked in nearby harbour and they went on from those early years
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they went on to um develop the us's first nationwide drug distribution network
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and they've been innovating ever since to improve patient care around the world
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now mckesson are the largest and oldest healthcare company in north America they're ranked
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number seven in the fortune 500 and mckesson deliver over a third of all prescriptive medicines in the us
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so i think it's important to briefly share um mckesson's vision and our values to help understand the
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company culture and also to understand what drives our diversity agenda so our vision is to improve care in
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every setting and who we have our patients pharmacies providers
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hospital hospitals and health systems biopharma and manufacturers and employees and or
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how we work together are our values which are which are called eye care and i lead our eye care values and they kind of
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guide how we treat each other our customers and everybody that we interact with and our eyelid values
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guide how we approach leadership and we believe that everyone regardless of title our position has a responsibility
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to lead and this year review really pushes us to make better faster decisions that benefit our customers
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our employees and more importantly our patients and i have to say these values really are the language within mckesson
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and they really have created a culture where people choose to be a part of and also the underpinner dei approach
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as an organization mckesson are dedicated to doing their part to eliminate bias and to promote equality justice and
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furnace in the world as well as inclusion diversity and equal opportunity in the workplace to support
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employee growth we provide regular feedback and training and work to create and maintain an inclusive environment where everyone
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brings their authentic self to work and know that they are appreciated and that the perspectives are heard and
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considered in 2020 we appointed a chief impact officer dr kelvin baggett as a direct report to the
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ceo brian tyler and he will have global responsibility for enterprise sustainability strategy
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social impact and our dei agenda and in addition to this we are proud to be recognized for the seventh
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consecutive year as one of the best places to work for lgbtq equality by the
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human rights foundation and as well as the best place to work for a disability inclusion on the disability index for the fifth
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consecutive year also honoured to be recognized as one of the best employers for diversity by ford
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so this will bring me to the court site where i am based um mckesson cork and they're actually based in the airport
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business park and they consist of a team of over 150 employees who provide valuable business solutions
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to mckesson businesses in Ireland in north America in the uk in luxembourg and south east asia
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the cork office has a very impressive broad structure strategist story it started in 2001 and as a nine
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employee software distribution company where they were shipping tapes and cds DVDs and
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printed materials and this year is our 20 years in cork and so really since 2006 the main growth in the
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cork site has been within the technology space so as well as our corporate services
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and north star which is um a subsidiary of mckesson the main bulk of our operations in court
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which lies in isrm which is you know information security risk management cyber security and also within
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innovation such as ux design and devops so one of the cornerstones in my mind
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one of the cornerstones of a successful dei programmer strategy is that they are rooted in authentic
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commitment to making a difference as a company one of our key imperatives in cork
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and has been supporting women in technology we are very proud to sponsor the mckesson mtu
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scholarship and the mckesson women in it scholarship is awarded to the leaving certificate
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student with the highest ceo points and as they enter into a program in the department of computer
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science and the scholarship fees will be paid to the recipient for every year of their undergraduate
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program and also mckesson provides them with a placement during their interim year
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as well as mentors and the mckesson female PhD scholarship is the first of its kind
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in the country and it didn't start out to be so um i suppose unique and initially
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it wasn't it was intended to be fit you know female only but at that time and was in mtu it was cit
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and the crt advance program there was actually six PhD positions available in total but they
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only received six female applicants so when it was advertised then as a female PhD there was an 85 percent
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increase in women applying they had over 40 applications and i think this statistic
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alone you know shows the um it shows the i suppose the the diversity
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that is available when you when you really kind of put it out there so what i would like to
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summarize with now is to share some top tips from a ta perspective and the number one one is know your why
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you know employees are thinking bigger and beyond compliance these days now
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compliance is very important russell will tell you all about how important compliance is in a minute
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um but being intentional as to what you are prioritizing is essential to getting the support that you need from your
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employees the key stakeholders so pick the main area that you wish to concentrate on so
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for example in cork it was women in tech and within London it's having more diversity at the senior
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level and for example so hr roles in ta rules from you know it was looking at the gender
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banks and you know trying to attract more male applicants so really if everything is a priority
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nothing is so be very clear on your why diversely so i want you to think of ta
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as the talent gatekeepers enable them to drive the diversity agenda and to have deliver on
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the relevant scorecard criteria holding ta accountable for providing a diverse shortlist and
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diversity hiring can really help an organization to increase their ability to achieve the diversity
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by between 21 and 37 however we must be realistic as this can
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come at a price usually it increases the time to fill and also ta as a function
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can be very goal orientated so it's worth considering these points in relation to setting metrics and kpis
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it's also important for recruiters to remove bias wherever possible some examples obviously would be submitting
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uh blind cvs removing bias from job descriptions using gender neutral language or you
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know removing the barrier of a degree qualification um another tip that i find very useful
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is to ensure you have a diverse interview panel not just in gender but also in level
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okay and moving on to education and training so recruiters must know how to identify and mitigate
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their biases when sourcing and evaluating diverse candidates just as much as the managers must
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understand their part of their role in relation to driving diversity so it's important for
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companies to ensure that their diversity training targets awareness
33:15
and skills development so for example small like micro learning then up to you know
33:21
bigger unconscious bias learning such as the mark program that tricia just mentioned and next up is local communities and so
33:30
workflow workforces should really reflect the communities that they serve and it's important to be community
33:35
minded and as a company we strive to strengthen our partnerships with non-profit and with charity organizations and
33:41
another example in the court site is our commitment to supporting the arts and our chosen and
33:49
you know our chosen beneficiary is actually the court opera house which is also a great attraction too and also a great benefit
33:56
and i for one cannot wait until the theatres open up um and as already mentioned mcketson corp
34:02
has strong relationships with local colleges but also with other educational initiatives such as the women reboot program and
34:09
which is the step back to it program and the fast track to it program and as well as we appreciate we we
34:16
participate regularly in the junior achievement programs and remote working as a company we have
34:23
always been fairly flexible however cobit has definitely opened up the talent pool in relation to recruit
34:29
for recruiters in relation to location and and disability the hr team also
34:35
created a specific program for employees called flex for your day
34:40
and this is supportive for managers on how to build a team culture that enables the flexibility within their team's work
34:47
schedules and it provides some really helpful resources for managers and how to talk to their teams how to
34:53
evaluate their options and to really help their employees to succeed and the final point inclusion there is
35:01
no diversity without inclusion being able to attract a diverse staff whether it's in terms of
35:06
gender ethnicity age disability or lgbtq is only the first step if we can't
35:13
retain these employees and all of the efforts that we went into recruiting has been for nothing
35:18
employees of any kind that don't feel welcomed appreciated equal and included are less
35:24
likely to contribute in a way that makes the company profitable or to stay for very long or to recommend
35:31
a referral for another diverse hire down the line um and so this is where the company's culture is key sometimes there can be
35:38
challenges in relation to diversity but there really should be no barriers in relation to inclusion
35:44
there's some great initiatives from a lot of organizations in relation to inclusion programs for example the drgs
35:50
that trisha mentioned and another recent example that our hr ops team have
35:55
managed to launch in in the court site it's a program called mental health first aiders
36:01
and this is a training program that is offered to all staff on a voluntary basis it's a two-day program and what it does
36:07
it helps um train them on how to recognize the early signs of mental health problems and to feel more confident in supporting
36:14
someone being a colleague or a family member experiencing any such problems and then
36:19
that employee becomes a mental health ambassador and it really delivers a sense of
36:24
psychological safety within the fight and i have to say that this program has really proved so beneficial especially
36:30
in this last year when we've been through so much change so i'd like to thank you so much for
36:36
your time i'm hoping some of these tips might and you know give you some inspiration from your your recruitment
36:41
perspective so i should head you back to don thank you so much thank you jackie and thanks for your um
36:48
very clear presentation there as well some great insights and i think that there are some great examples from both
36:55
trisha and yourself that will be of use for companies and organizations that are maybe not as far along their edi journey
37:02
maybe as as your organizations are at the moment so thank you jackie our next speaker is
37:08
dr deirdre o'donovan who is the lecturer and course coordinator of the master of arts in
37:13
human resource management at mtu with 12 years of lecturing experience in hrm and hrm related
37:20
modules deirdre was responsible for the design and development of the diversity management module on the ba in hrm in
37:28
2016 and is currently working on module development for our certificate in diversity and inclusion in the workplace
37:35
commencing in September deirdre's activities in research emerged from her postgraduate work
37:42
and are now primarily concerned with edi hrm and industrial and organizational
37:48
psychology particularly in the areas of inclusion and organizational citizenship behaviours
37:54
in 2015 deirdre completed her PhD entitled diversity inclusion and
38:00
organizational citizenship behaviours a study of nurses in the Irish healthcare sector
38:07
a conceptual framework for inclusion resulted from that study and more recently deirdre has published
38:13
four book chapters across the last five years the first two specifically related to
38:18
diversity and inclusion the third providing an overview of the hrm function
38:24
and the fourth chapter exploring the relationship between dni ocds and the learning and knowledge
38:30
management so again please feel free to answer your questions in the chat please use the inclusive mtu in your
38:37
tweets and I'll hand you over to deirdre thank you
38:46
thank you don that intro has made me feel a bit tired and very busy um i'm here to give a
38:53
slightly different perspective to trisha and jackie so we're coming from still an organization but we're
38:58
coming from public sector organization so i'm delighted to be here on behalf of
39:03
my colleagues this morning and to give a whirlwind whistle stop very quick tour of the edi project that we are currently
39:11
working on across mtu it's a project that we're very excited by um it's the first of its kind certainly
39:18
in terms of the higher education sector in Ireland in terms of scope and size let's speak to that a little bit more
39:24
it began back in 2019 when our hr manager director casey
39:30
became aware of the need for some specific dni training in mtu
39:36
and she decided to look uh in-house to internal expertise and that's where i and the rest of the team came
39:41
on board to look at what we could do in this space across mtu now that's important because it means
39:47
that the project began as being needs driven it's continued to be needs driven and now it's both needs
39:53
driven and data driven so we're continually using our activities to work out what else is needed where we
39:59
need to go next in this project one of the things then that makes us unique um in terms of scope and size again in
40:06
the the education sector is that it's university-wide engagement so regardless of the type of student you
40:13
are whether you are full-time part-time day night access regardless the type of staff member whether you're teaching
40:19
non-teaching full-time permanent casual whoever you are if you're a stakeholder in mtu
40:25
this project concerns you and you can be as involved in this as you want to be
40:31
because our ultimate goal and i liked earlier when jackie was saying that the y is important our ultimate goal here is very clear we want to keep working
40:38
towards more inclusive classrooms and there's lots of activities already being done on that in mtu and we want to create an overall
40:44
inclusive mtu then for everybody so we're not just interested in staff we're not just interested in students it's about every stakeholder
40:51
and every stakeholder's experience or perception of inclusion while they're in mtu
40:57
so one of the first things that we did was we designed those workshops to meet the need for training
41:04
the workshops are both skills and awareness focused and that's something that we think is
41:09
important so it's not just about giving people awareness of things that matter to others it's not about
41:15
helping them to understand themselves more it's also about what the practicality of that
41:20
what does all of this edi stuff actually mean for us on a daily basis
41:25
in mtu how does it impact our performance and how can we assist students to learn and to engage in the learning
41:32
process and to perform to the best of their abilities and how can we help our fellow staff
41:37
members to perform their job to the best their abilities because that's really the crux of inclusion the crux of inclusion is
41:43
letting people be so that they can do their job the best way that they can
41:49
because of that it's very much focused in the workshops on engagement participation conversation
41:56
so creating that space and i know it always sounds very psychobabbly when you say it but creating that safe space
42:02
so that people know that this is where they can come and they can ask questions and they can raise issues that matter to them
42:09
in the workshops we look at a number of important concepts that are probably familiar to many of you so we set the
42:16
scene first for diversity in Ireland uh diversity and education so again that why behind why we're here
42:23
we then explore the concepts of microaggressions uh privilege unconscious bias and then
42:31
we spend a hefty maybe third of the workshop looking specifically at inclusion what it is what it means what it doesn't
42:38
mean and how it impacts us daily across mtu
42:43
all of that is a lot the workshops um go on for about three hours now we've been told they don't feel that long
42:48
thankfully but they are they are heavy um especially if we have good participation
42:54
we want to make sure that people go away with the skills and the knowledge and a point of reference
43:00
coming out of the workshops so we've designed what we call our takeaway packs and in those takeaway packs we reinforce
43:06
everything that's happened in the workshop we have um content on everything that we cover
43:12
all of the exercises and activities that we use in the workshop they all go into that pack as well so people can look
43:17
back to what came up and any points that were interesting to them and anything that they took note of to use going forward
43:25
but we also give more information that makes people feel hopefully more
43:30
comfortable and engaging with dialogue in dialogue with people going forward so for example we have
43:37
um content on gender identity terminology sexual orientation terminology and we
43:43
have a table in there that we call the practicalities and in that we've identified a number of
43:49
dimensions of diversity and we talked about what they may mean for students in the classroom for students on campus and for
43:56
staff both in and outside the classroom and in campus in general
44:01
we've also created an overarching edi policy
44:06
now what i mean by an overarching policy is that it doesn't deal with absolutely everything to do with edi in that policy
44:12
it's not completely exhaustive but what it is is it's our umbrella for everything else that's going to
44:18
happen for edi so it identifies other policies that need to be developed and it identifies policies that we have that
44:24
are already really good but that we need to just re-examine an edi lens and it identifies a number of
44:30
activities and procedures that will stem from that now all of those are both needs and data
44:35
driven coming from the original needs of our stakeholders and what we're identifying as we go along the way
44:42
our other core activity um at this point is research so there's been quite a body of
44:47
research undertaken and first in terms of desk research to help
44:53
us shape our workshops and our eti policy but now also in terms of as don mentioned and pretty exhaustive
44:59
questionnaires across the entirety of mtu with staff and students there's
45:05
a number of things important to us and very important to us that shape what we do and how we do it on this project
45:11
the first thing is we want to capture the current initiatives in place there are some fantastic dni initiatives
45:18
happening in mtu long before this project started we want to find out all of the ones that we don't know about
45:24
not reviewed cannibalizing them but with a view to working out well how can we help how can we help these initiatives uh
45:30
further what can they learn from us what can we learn from them to shape our future activities
45:36
another core um importance for us is framing so
45:42
we try to frame everything and be very intentional in our framings that we can create safety for dialogue we begin the
45:50
workshops by reminding people that even though we're lecturers we're not here to lecture them we're not there to tell them they're bad
45:56
people we're not there to tell them that everything they've ever done or thought about dni is wrong we're there to create awareness
46:03
and to help them to be empathetic to um other students and staff and to identify what matters to them and how we
46:09
can all work together to create more inclusion and it's important because there's an element of accountability
46:15
um for you and others when it comes to inclusion and I'll speak to that again in a minute
46:21
the final thing that's important to us is moving beyond diversity management so moving beyond individual initiatives
46:28
towards the concept of inclusion or true inclusion so something we thought that would be
46:33
helpful to share with you to illustrate what we mean by that is is this model it's a framework for factors
46:39
contributing to inclusion so this shows based on research that diversity management is really important
46:45
and initiatives individual initiatives are very important they're a really good starting off point
46:50
for informing what we try to do with inclusion for beginning our skills and awareness training for creating that open dialogue
46:58
but we need to move past them fairly quickly towards thinking about inclusion more holistically
47:03
beyond dimensions of diversity we need to think about inclusion about
47:09
the individual level and the organizational level because we know that you can feel included and unincluded
47:15
at the same time you could feel included in one context basically so maybe in your team
47:20
but not included in another context or maybe not in the wider organization we also can't presume that because
47:26
someone feels included now that they will always feel included it's very similar to the concept of engagement
47:31
and what this model shows us is that diversity is half the the battle for want of a better word
47:36
with are infrastructural issues there are organizational specific issues that also impact whether we feel included
47:43
so whether we feel like we're part of a team um the extent to which we perceive
47:49
stability so stability referring to familiarity within environment but also to
47:56
um the development of friendships and relationships in the workplace do i have someone to go for a cup of
48:01
coffee with do i have someone to be my sounding board engagement and inclusion then are fairly
48:07
inextricably linked so typically if someone does not feel engaged in their job they also don't
48:12
feel fully included and vice versa someone doesn't feel included their engagement levels tend to drop as well
48:19
the issue of respect then so perceiving respect feeling respected by others and then of course management support
48:24
because management set the scene for everything in the organization so what's next for us is a lot more
48:30
activity and continuation of what we're already doing a lot more stakeholder involvement because we need to know what people
48:36
want in order to shape activities that help them feel included induction training for staff and
48:43
students so based on what we're doing now at some point we will develop induction training that every staff member and every student who comes
48:50
to mtu will take part in constantly reinforcing that message of inclusion
48:55
as they go through their time with us and mtu and reporting and sharing findings and
49:00
learning not just with academia but with industry so we are an academic content
49:05
still an organization and a workplace so what we learn in our context is just
49:11
as applicable to every other context and as dan mentioned we have the search and edi as well hopefully rolling out in
49:16
September which will hopefully see some of you at and i know now i'm at time so i want to
49:22
leave you just a couple of points okay our first intended outcome is inclusion for everybody
49:27
regardless whether you're a staff member whether you're a student whether you're an affiliate to someone who works on the fringes whoever you are if you
49:34
have a stakeholder interest in mtu we want you to perceive inclusion we want you to be able to perform while you're
49:40
with us value reinforcement if you pop onto the mt website you look up our values
49:47
the very first value is identified as inclusion we can't have a value of inclusion if
49:52
we're not continually reinforcing that even though we're aware that what inclusion is is different to everybody
50:00
and the very last thing i want to very very briefly leave you with is the concept of accountability
50:06
so when we talk about dni initiatives very often it's framed from how can i as
50:13
an individual help other people to feel included and that's really important your intent is important and why you're
50:20
doing what you're doing why you're saying what you're saying is important and you have a role but
50:25
try to remember as well though that other people have an accountability for their inclusion
50:30
if something is important to me i can't expect anyone else to know that unless i tell them
50:35
if i have a particular preference i can't expect anybody to know that unless i tell them so bear that in mind when you're trying
50:41
to work out how to be inclusive it's different for everybody and you can't know unless we create a
50:48
space for dialogue where we can share what's important thank you for bearing with me and i know
50:55
that was a very quick tour but I'll pass you back to don now for the legal context of russell
51:01
thank you deirdre and thank you for bringing us through um some of the mtu edi initiatives
51:08
um which will have a positive impact on our staff our students and on the wider community
51:14
as well so our final speaker today is russell rochford who is a partner with matheson
51:20
russell is partner in the top ranked uh employment pensions and benefits group of matheson
51:26
with over 14 years of experience advising a wide range of public sector
51:32
third sector corporate and institutional clients in the uk and Ireland across a spectrum of contentious and
51:38
non-contentious employment industrial relations equality and immigration law
51:44
russell regularly advises employer clients on equality and dni issues arising from recruitment determination
51:52
including managing sensitive and complex equality disputes and litigation
51:58
he's an active member of the uk employment lawyers association the European employment lawyers
52:04
association and the employment lawyers association of Ireland and the American bar association as well
52:12
as delivering regular presentations and training to colleagues and clients russell has delivered bespoke training
52:18
to members of the American chamber of commerce and the institute of directors in Ireland on managing employment law risk
52:25
and defending employment claims he also regularly presents the deployment conferences organized by the American
52:31
bar association in the us and the white company here in Ireland so again please feel free to enter your
52:38
questions in chat and russell over to you thanks very much don can i just first of
52:44
all check that i'm sharing my screen properly can people see that great thanks very much and many thanks
52:50
as well to the mtu and the cipd for inviting me along to today's session i'm
52:55
delighted to take part so as we've already heard the proper implementation of a dni program can
53:02
bring great benefits to a an employer but where an employer doesn't do that it can lead to problems
53:08
with productivity and staff morale and also give rise to employee relations issues
53:14
at its worst though it can expose an employer to a number of different claims under the employment equality
53:19
legislation so what i'd like to do first of all is give you a high level and overview of the obligations that an
53:26
employer has under the employment equality legislation I'll then consider how an employer can be made liable for claims and also the
53:33
types of remedies that are available to employees under the legislation lastly i'm going
53:38
to consider three particular cases recent cases to illustrate why it is so important
53:44
for an employer to foster a culture that prevents discrimination and promotes diversity
53:50
so as you know i'm sure the equality legislation prohibits direct and indirect discrimination against
53:55
employees and prospective employees on the basis of nine protected characteristics which are
54:00
hopefully listed there on the slide the legislation also prohibits harassment on the basis of any of those
54:05
characteristics and the victimization of an employee where they raise issues about equality and good faith
54:13
lastly the legislation requires that all employees are entitled to equal pay for equal work or work of equal value
54:19
and it also the legislation also imposes implied equal pay and non-discrimination
54:24
clauses into everyone's contracts of employment so there are therefore a number of
54:31
different claims that can be brought against an employer and that they can be exposed to under the equality
54:36
legislation the legislation only provides a defense to an employer for an indirect
54:41
discrimination claim so an employer will basically be vicariously liable for the acts of an
54:46
employee that engages in direct discrimination harassment sexual harassment or victimization even if those acts are
54:53
done without the employer's knowledge or approval and the equality legislation
54:59
does recognize that though and it allows an employer to avoid liability for the
55:04
acts of an employee where it can prove that it took steps as were reasonably practicable to prevent
55:10
the employee from carrying out the discriminatory act so that basically means that the measures the practices and the
55:16
procedures that we've listened to from jackie from trish and from deirdre they're all
55:21
important when it comes to implementing a dni program but from a legal perspective all important in mitigating an employer's
55:28
exposure to legal claims i will discuss what those measures and practices look like in a bit more detail in in
55:35
just a bit so in terms of the employee remedies that are available
55:41
if an employee suffers discrimination harassment or victimization you know what avenues of redress can
55:46
they seek i'm sure you'll be all familiar with the fact that the main redress is a claim
55:51
before the workplace relations commission where an employee can be awarded up to two years gross remuneration
55:57
the wrc and the labour court on appeal can also require an employer to take specified courses of action towards
56:04
compliance such as revising equality policies or implementing training and in my
56:10
experience specified courses of action are often much more effective than a monetary
56:16
award against an employer it's also important to note that when the wrc and the labour car
56:21
court are assessing damages for the purposes of an award in an equality claim
56:27
they don't have to limit their analysis to financial loss only they can also provide compensation
56:32
for the general stress and suffering caused by the discriminatory act
56:37
and also an element of compensation to deter other employers what that means is that where somebody
56:43
brings a discriminatory dismissal claim the awards will generally tend to be
56:49
much higher than what somebody would get in an unfair dismissal claim a standard unfair dismissal claim because the um the basis of the analysis
56:56
in relation to awards is just on financial loss only in those cases so you should also note as well that
57:02
while cases before the wrc um and the labour course sorry the wrc
57:07
only are held in private and the names of the parties are anonymized when the determination is
57:13
issued an adjudication officer actually has the right to publish the names of the parties in a claim
57:18
under the equality legislation which they often do and in my experience that really does act as a deterrent to employers because
57:25
they understand that there could be amongst other things reputational damage and you know potential adverse media attention
57:32
in the event that their name is is linked with um you know a bad decision from the wrc on
57:37
the equality side the last point to mention on this is that in cases of gender discrimination
57:43
only an employee is entitled to actually bypass the wrc and bring a case before the circle court
57:49
and the benefit there is that there's absolutely no ceiling on the damages that can be awarded by the circuit court
57:56
um despite that um heightened sort of award potential there
58:01
is actually remarkably few cases that have been brought before the circuit court primarily because employees will be at
58:08
the risk of costs when it comes to claims before the civil courts so i talked there before about the
58:16
reasonable steps defense that an employer can use to avoid liability for the acts of an
58:22
employee and the most common steps um are as i'm sure you know the implementation of an effective
58:27
employment equality policy the provision of regular up-to-date equality training
58:33
the accommodation and promotion of equality and diversity by amongst other things the establishment of the sort of
58:39
erg committee that that trish mentioned earlier on and also
58:46
the inclusion of positive actions in the workplace and where those actions are permitted by the equality legislation
58:53
so what i'd like to do now is just talk you through some cases some very recent cases that illustrate why it's so
58:59
important for an employer to implement measures and practices that deal with equality diversity and
59:05
inclusion the first case there on your slide is actually a decision of the employment
59:11
appeals tribunal in the uk from last month actually it's la
59:16
uk limited versus gallon as a tribunal decision in the uk it's not binding on the employment fora and the courts here
59:22
in Ireland but the decision is of persuasive value which means that it can be taken into account
59:28
by an adjudication officer or a judge here so in this case the complainant who was
59:33
of Indian origin he complained to his manager that another employee had made racist remarks
59:38
uh to him on a regular basis his manager told him that he should
59:44
report it to hr but his manager did nothing else about it and at the same time around the same
59:49
time two other managers had also heard the remarks but they also did nothing about that so when the
59:55
complainant was dismissed from the employer in a separate matter relating to his performance he issued a grievance
1:00:01
which the employer dealt with but the employee then went on to bring a claim of harassment to the
1:00:07
employment tribunal under the uk equality act um an employer in the uk has the same sort of
1:00:13
reasonable steps defense that an employer in Ireland does and in this case the employer
1:00:19
produced evidence that it had equal opportunities and anti-bullying and harassment policies and that it also
1:00:25
properly trained its staff including the individual who had harassed the complainant in this case
1:00:30
so you think that all is good for the employer in its defense however the employment tribunal at first
1:00:36
instance rejected the employer's defense that it took all reasonable steps to prevent the discriminatory acts
1:00:42
and it did that on the basis that the training that had been issued to the employees was around 20 months old so the tribunal
1:00:49
said that it had become stale and had ceased to be effective and the tribunal said that that was
1:00:55
evidenced by the fact that those remarks those type of remarks had been made and also by the fact that the two
1:01:00
managers had failed to report the matter as they should have done pursuant to the training that they had received
1:01:07
so the employer appeals that decision to the eat the employment appeals tribunal
1:01:12
and they basically argued that the statutory defense in the uk which as i said is the same in Ireland only required reasonable steps to be
1:01:19
taken the actual effectiveness of those steps was not relevant as you can imagine the eat rejected that
1:01:26
it upheld the tribunal decision and in doing so it said that the length and the depth of
1:01:32
training is important and in particular it said that the brief and superficial training is unlikely to have a
1:01:38
substantial effect on preventing harassment it also said that if it becomes clear to
1:01:43
an employer that harassment is still occurring or that perhaps training hasn't worked as as it should have
1:01:49
the employer is then basically on notice of the need to take further steps which in in that case would be to improve and
1:01:55
refresh the training i wanted to mention this case not least because it was so recent but because
1:02:01
i think it'll it's a very sensible decision it'll be followed here in Ireland but i think it's a silencery reminder as
1:02:08
well to employers that it's simply not sufficient to simply you know churn out policies and training as
1:02:13
a box ticking exercise your policies your training have to be routinely monitored to ensure they're
1:02:19
effective and where they're not they should be refreshed and that is entirely consistent with the Irish human
1:02:24
rights and equality commission's guidance on equality policies and training and it's also
1:02:30
consistent as well with recent wrc and labour court cases here the second case is a decision of
1:02:37
the wrc from November last year um it's a case called a receptionist
1:02:42
versus a hotel um very imaginative names for for these cases but they can't name the
1:02:48
the actual employers everyone would be glad to hear um unless you do something very bad in
1:02:53
that case the complainant brazilian national was subjected to derogatory remarks about her nationality
1:02:58
from an employee as well as other discriminatory acts and when the employer was asked about this
1:03:04
by the adjudication officer the employer said that they neither had a grievance policy nor did they have a policy in relation
1:03:11
to diversity they also confirmed that they provided no training at the to two employees in
1:03:16
relation to equality diversity and inclusion so when awarding fifteen thousand euros
1:03:22
um for the discrimination that the employee suffered on the grounds of a race the wrc commented that the employer in
1:03:29
its words had a laissez-faire attitude to its obligations they had no measures in place to safeguard the dignity of employees and
1:03:36
it was therefore really easy for the adjudication officer to find that the employer just would not have treated an Irish
1:03:43
person in the same manner as it had treated the brazilian complainant just to also mention as well
1:03:49
the owner of the hotel in that case it was actually his mother who was the employee who had harassed and passed off these druggety remarks so
1:03:56
it was a bad case all around for the hotel the final case then is a case
1:04:01
uh from 2018 um it's called the shop assistant versus a retailer in that case a shop assistant suffered
1:04:08
sexual harassment in the form of remarks and physical assaults from an assistant manager over a period of about six months after she returned
1:04:15
to the office from maternity leave the behaviour was basically ignored by other employees
1:04:20
including managers who had witnessed it and the complainant eventually
1:04:25
got up the courage to complain to a deputy manager and who then spoke to the perpetrator and but the deputy manager didn't report
1:04:33
it to hr and because he had passed it on to the perpetrator the perpetrator unfortunately exacerbated his um or worsened his
1:04:42
behaviour and she was also then ostracized by other colleagues which caused her health to deteriorate
1:04:48
the complainant then brought a claim for gender discrimination and sexual harassment under the equality legislation
1:04:53
and during the course of the hearing the employer obviously put forward the reasonable steps defense and showed
1:04:59
that it had a bullying and anti-harassment policy it showed the training was given excuse
1:05:05
me to all employees but the wrc in this case gave that short shrift basically and said there was no
1:05:11
point in having a bullying and harassment policy and providing training if it's never going to be implemented by the managers and the wrc also criticized
1:05:19
the fact that the bullying and harassment policy didn't refer to sexual harassment and so the aod judication officer in the
1:05:26
case considered what he described as the inexplicable failure of management to prevent the discriminatory
1:05:32
treatment as well as the serious nature of the discriminatory acts and awarded the complainant forty thousand
1:05:37
euros which um as compared to the complainant salary is a very significant amount
1:05:43
um so that brings my presentation to an end i hope those cases do highlight the importance of
1:05:49
having effective good quality policies and training that are routinely monitored to ensure that they are up to
1:05:55
date in terms of you know the law and best practice as proper as as part of your dni program
1:06:01
thanks tom thank you russell that was certainly
1:06:07
food for thought especially with the case law that you gave us some examples of there so that was very useful and beneficial so thank you very
1:06:14
much so i'm going to hand you over now i think to marry to take us through the questions and answers and i know
1:06:20
there were some comments there on the chat as well
1:06:27
do we have marry again okay um thank you john for that and
1:06:33
thank you to trisha deirdre and uh russell as well for um the presentations and
1:06:41
jackie not forgetting you jack thank you so much for those presentations there's some great work going on there
1:06:47
so I'll just have a quick look there at the questions there this one which came in there for you at the start
1:06:54
um it came in from shane and how do you ensure uniformity of the edi message
1:06:59
across business platforms with different leadership teams now that came in when trisha was speaking so
1:07:04
trisha do you want to take that that's a great question the short answer is with difficulty
1:07:11
you know and as we've heard as well from some of the presentations like this some leaders are more
1:07:18
interested more tuned into this than others and there are always going to be some for whom this is
1:07:23
never going to be on the radar so over the past let's say six months nine months
1:07:28
um one thing we have done is we have made this part of the of goals so leaders have to actually
1:07:36
inform themselves it's thought leadership as a company this is the culture that we have i mentioned about the tone at the top
1:07:43
really leaders have to row in behind that and so we've made more than that of
1:07:48
available we've made more resources available but just sorry now to take time but one thing we
1:07:55
did find was when we made the mark program a requirement for all people managers
1:08:01
that was a huge help shane because it meant that people who maybe didn't get it before
1:08:06
they started off the four hours going oh god I've sit through this and it's unconscious by his training by the end of it they went ah okay i get
1:08:14
it a little bit more so they're more receptive so that's a very i suppose with difficulty
1:08:20
is the short answer but um really we try and just make it readily available so that people
1:08:25
don't have to dig in order to get it that's great tricia thank you very much for that
1:08:31
um jackie there was she came in there as um it's as we are all well aware validating the
1:08:38
return on investment on organization development spend is always challenging but what kinds of measures do dell and
1:08:45
mckesson capture or report so maybe jackie you can take that one if you would please um i was a big a big
1:08:52
test um and i think trisha you might jump in here as well and eos is a big
1:08:58
kind of it's a survey employee employee opinion surveys and a lot of um you know you can you can measure you
1:09:04
know a lot of uh i suppose whether your employees are positive and you know the leaders are also achieving their scorecard metrics
1:09:11
so that's two ways of measuring it um full surveys attrition even down to attrition
1:09:16
levels you know if you've got you know a department where their tradition levels are really high uh you know there's something to look at there
1:09:22
as well so i would say eos pulse surveys and attrition and the amount of people in ergs as
1:09:29
tricia went through as well that can be a huge success you know whether there's an erg that's doing really really well or so
1:09:35
there's so many different ways with so much data to measure this just to add on to that i think you know
1:09:42
cross-referencing those different data points is hugely successful in identifying
1:09:47
where things need to be you know as jackie mentioned if there's one group where they have no problem getting women
1:09:53
for example into a group and yet after six eight ten months those women are leaving
1:09:59
there's a couple of different data points you know the manager maybe has certain the promotion rates
1:10:05
things like that and so definitely looking at the data but back to the manager or from the top has to be
1:10:12
interested in looking at that data i think as well thank you for that jackie um we're just
1:10:19
conscious of time here at the moment um i just have one more question there for deirdre um
1:10:24
how is a project like this resourced in higher education um
1:10:30
with some difficulty and a little bit of luck uh so as don mentioned we were very
1:10:36
fortunate that we were able to get some funding from the strategic alignment fund administered by our teaching and
1:10:42
learning unit and we were able to get some funding from our hr department as well in the context of higher education um a
1:10:49
lot of initial work is discretionary so it's people doing it on top of their their regular jobs
1:10:55
and getting funding for projects like this in the humanities umbrella
1:11:02
is very difficult so if there are any budget holders who are looking for something to do with
1:11:08
some of their budget we will gladly help you out with your budget spend so yeah that's terrific thank you very much
1:11:16
and thank you um to all of the speakers russell um i don't see a question there for yourself
1:11:21
but thank you so much um you've obviously explained everything to everyone i'm just passing back to
1:11:27
andrew now i can today
1:11:35
andrew i was going to make um lots of wonderful comments about what we've seen this morning i'm not going to do that
1:11:40
unconscious of the time i will however remind you of a few uh areas that we discussed one was uh many advocating real change
1:11:48
known as mark um the concept of uh
1:11:54
takeaway packs which i didn't have to talk to you about again because uh i i hadn't heard it before uh
1:12:01
also the reputational damage which russell spoke about which really scares me and and i hope that um
1:12:09
here this morning we've been conscious of that uh however i'll give my award for the the best comment to trisha for
1:12:15
her comment about the children on the alert for 10 minutes i thought how our life has changed
1:12:21
but isn't it fantastic that we can spend an hour and a quarter this morning whether you're in gully gold west media
1:12:26
cork and be able to uh join in on our discussions which i thought was fantastic
1:12:31
i'd like to give thanks to our speakers jackie deirdre ross watson patricia i'm our chair wonderful don crowley and
1:12:39
thank you very much somebody is thanking me as well uh we had 25th
1:12:46
registration which is a phenomenal number for an event of this and it just i suppose shows the interest in the
1:12:51
topic of edna i don't know if um jacinta is still there but i'd also like to thank the
1:12:58
team in dublin and cipd uh jacinta and mary connector for joining us in the
1:13:03
movie uh here in clark to karen holland and particularly to
1:13:09
my vice chair at the moment mary manning you don't realize that it's a four-year term when you take on the rule of chair
1:13:14
in the cipd there's a year going in that's vice chair two years this year in the year going over so mary's been a four-year contribution
1:13:21
which i think is phenomenal i'd like to give her my sincere thanks i'm sure thanks to all the members here today
1:13:26
um i have i was going to have one quote for you i have which i have in a slide but i'm
1:13:32
not sure where the slide is so I'll just pick it up here myself
1:13:38
um I'll just leave you with this thought um this morning diversity
1:13:45
is being invited to the party and inclusion is being asked to dance so with that
1:13:51
thought uh i'd like to thank you all for attending today and hopefully we'll see you at another event uh going
1:13:58
forward very soon best luck to everybody thank you
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